Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/07/2000 09:09 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
MINUTES                                                                                                                         
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                                        
April 7, 2000                                                                                                                   
9:09 AM                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TAPES                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SFC-00 # 79, Side A and Side B                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson convened the meeting at                                                                                 
approximately 9:09 AM.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT Co-Chair John Torgerson, Co-Chair Parnell, Senator                                                                      
Dave Donley, Senator Lyda Green, Senator Pete Kelly,                                                                            
Senator Loren Leman, Senator Randy Phillips, Senator Gary                                                                       
Wilken                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Also Attending: SENATOR LYMAN HOFFMAN; REPRESENTATIVE CARL                                                                      
MORGAN; GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the                                                                         
Commissioner, Department of Fish and Game; SUSAN SCHRADER,                                                                      
Conservation Advocate, Alaska Conservation Voters; JONATHAN                                                                     
LACK, staff to Representative Andrew Halcro; ROBIN                                                                              
GILCRIST, President, Housing First; DAN FAUSKE,                                                                                 
CEO/Executive Director, Alaska Housing Finance Corporation;                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Attending via Teleconference: From Anchorage: KEVIN                                                                             
DELANEY, Director, Division of Sport Fish, Department of                                                                        
Fish and Game; KNEELAND TAYLOR, Chair, Alaskan's Against                                                                        
Snaring Wolves; DAVID GUNDACKER SR; MIKE BURNS; DAVID                                                                           
LAWER, President, Alaska Bankers Association; JAN SIEBERTS;                                                                     
HUBERT GELLERT, Private Landlord, Former Chair, Board of                                                                        
Equalization, Municipality of Anchorage; MATT REAMS; WILEY                                                                      
BROOKS, Property Manager; JEFF JUDD, Executive Director,                                                                        
Anchorage Mutual Housing Association; From Fairbanks: STAN                                                                      
BLOOM, Vice President, Chitina Dip Netters' Association;                                                                        
DICK BISHOP, Vice President, Alaska Outdoor Council; MIKE                                                                       
TINKER, Chair, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee;                                                                      
MARY BISHOP; MAC MINARD, Interior Regional Supervisor,                                                                          
Division of Sport Fish, Department of Fish and Game; GREG                                                                       
MACHACEK, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee, part-                                                                     
time charter boat operator on the Chitina River; PETE                                                                           
BUIST, President, Alaskan Trappers Association From                                                                             
Glennallen: JOSEPH HART, representing the Chitina and Ahtna                                                                     
Native Corporations; JOE MATTIE; From Bethel: JAMES BERLIN                                                                      
JR, Resource Specialist, ABCP, Inc.; From Barrow: BEN                                                                           
HOPSON JR., Chair, Coalition to the Alaskan Way of Life;                                                                        
From Mat-Su: RON ARNO, Guide                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SB 192-APPPROPRIATIONS; CAPITAL BUDGET/REAPPROPS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The Committee heard a summary of the recommendations of the                                                                     
Capital Budget Subcommittee. The bill was held in                                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SB 256-PHYSICIAN NEGOTIATIONS WITH HEALTH INSURE                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The bill was reported from Committee with no further                                                                            
debate.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB 301-CHITINA DIPNET FISHING PERMIT                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The Committee adopted a committee substitute and an                                                                             
amendment. Public testimony was heard. The bill was                                                                             
reported from Committee.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB 271-FOOD SAFETY: DEC OVERSIGHT/ADVISORY GRP.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
The Committee adopted a committee substitute and reported                                                                       
the bill from Committee.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB 259-CRIMES: REPRESENTATIONS/I.D./COMPUTERS                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
After brief debate, the bill was held in Committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HJR 56-CONST. AM: PROHIBIT WILDLIFE INITIATIVES                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
The Committee heard from the sponsor, the Department of                                                                         
Fish and Game and various members of the public. The                                                                            
resolution was reported from Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 272-MUNICIPAL TAX: LOW INCOME HOUSING                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The Committee heard from the sponsor, the Alaska Housing                                                                        
Finance Corporation and members of the public. The bill was                                                                     
held in Committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HB   3-DRUGS: LISTED CHEMICALS/METHAMPHETAMINE                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
This bill was scheduled but not heard.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
HB 380-INSURER TAX CREDIT: FIRE STANDRDS COUNCIL                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This bill was scheduled but not heard.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 192                                                                                                             
"An Act making and amending capital appropriations and                                                                          
reappropriations and capitalizing funds; and providing                                                                          
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson announced the Committee would be hearing                                                                     
a report from the Capital Budget Subcommittee and if the                                                                        
report were adopted, a committee substitute would be                                                                            
drafted and distributed. He continued saying the deadline                                                                       
for amendments to the capital budget legislation would be                                                                       
the following Monday at 3:00 PM.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley, chair of the Capital Budget Subcommittee,                                                                       
talked about the relatively new process of addressing                                                                           
capital budget requests in a subcommittee setting. He                                                                           
listed the membership of the subcommittee as Senator                                                                            
Torgerson, Senator Wilken, Senator Adams and himself. He                                                                        
stated that Senator Leman also participated in some of the                                                                      
subcommittee meetings in the place of Senator Adams.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley shared that the proposal from the                                                                                
subcommittee was to utilize $138,474,201. Those funds are a                                                                     
combination of approximately $80 million general funds,                                                                         
$18.5 million Alaska Industrial Development and Export                                                                          
Authority (AIDEA) dividend funds and $39 million Alaska                                                                         
Housing Finance Corporation (AHFC) funds, he said. He noted                                                                     
that the total amount is $15,679,932 less than the previous                                                                     
year's enacted capital spending and over $33 million less                                                                       
than the governor's requested funding level.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley told that the subcommittee was assigned the                                                                      
task of assisting in making reductions to the operating                                                                         
budget to reach the targeted goal of $30 million. He                                                                            
stressed that the subcommittee was faced with reducing the                                                                      
governor's requested budget increase as well as reducing                                                                        
the amount of funds spent in the previous fiscal year.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley conveyed the priorities and criteria                                                                             
established by the subcommittee for project evaluation of                                                                       
the proposed capital items. These, he said, included                                                                            
whether the project was life, safety or health related,                                                                         
school education related, was eligible for unique and                                                                           
special federal funding sources and met deferred                                                                                
maintenance needs. He continued listing criteria as whether                                                                     
the funding request was for essential completion of a                                                                           
phased project, met critical administrative needs, and                                                                          
whether the project would have a high level of use to                                                                           
maximize benefit to the greatest number of users. He stated                                                                     
that none of the criteria was considered by itself and that                                                                     
the criteria had changed some from the previous year.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley added that the subcommittee attempted to not                                                                     
include projects that were not requested by the State Of                                                                        
Alaska and also to avoid projects where the state was asked                                                                     
to provide funding for projects requested by other                                                                              
governmental entities.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley qualified that the subcommittee did try to                                                                       
approve funding for projects that could reduce future                                                                           
operating budget expenses. He gave examples of capital                                                                          
projects that provided more efficient record keeping and                                                                        
case-management tracking.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley continued that to stay within the funding                                                                        
allocation goals, the subcommittee could not approve all                                                                        
the requested projects that met those criteria. He stressed                                                                     
that the subcommittee did attempt to rate the projects to                                                                       
include those that would have the most benefit.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley relayed that the subcommittee did not                                                                            
attempt to remedy the on-going problems with the Department                                                                     
of Transportation and Public Facilities Statewide                                                                               
Transportation Improvement Program (STIP) process. He said                                                                      
this was because it was felt that decisions related to                                                                          
these projects should be made by the full Senate Finance                                                                        
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley also reported that the subcommittee did not                                                                      
consider Grant Anticipation Revenue Vehicles (GARVEE) bonds                                                                     
as a funding source for capital projects.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LYMAN HOFFMAN was invited to join the Committee to                                                                      
speak for the Senate Minority on behalf of Senator Adams                                                                        
who was not present.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman spoke to an issue raised at the                                                                                 
subcommittee level concerning the stated intent to try to                                                                       
obtain the maximum amount of federal matching funds as                                                                          
possible. He regarded most of the projects meeting this                                                                         
criteria were economic development projects. He believed                                                                        
this year was the first in five or six years that this                                                                          
criterion was not applied to consideration of funding                                                                           
projects.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman then expressed concerns about the confusion                                                                     
over which document the subcommittee was working from. He                                                                       
came to the conclusion that the original version of SB 192                                                                      
was what the subcommittee was using. He reached this                                                                            
conclusion after asking the subcommittee chair the direct                                                                       
question and was told on the record that the original SB
192 was before the subcommittee. He stated that he would                                                                        
have objected to the adoption of the governor's amended                                                                         
version of SB 192 due to the omission of several rural                                                                          
projects.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman talked about the impacts on rural projects                                                                      
contained in each version. He wanted to make sure all of                                                                        
the important projects receive funding.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman spoke to the governor's amended request                                                                         
saying he did not think that the added STIP projects                                                                            
followed a fair public process in being included in the                                                                         
updated version.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson stated that he had a side-by-side                                                                            
spreadsheet prepared by the Division of Legislative Finance                                                                     
that compared GARVEE bonds related to the STIP. He said he                                                                      
was trying to obtain information from the Administration as                                                                     
to what projects properly belong in the STIP.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson spoke to frustrations the Committee has                                                                      
had with the Department of Transportation and Public                                                                            
Facilities in having the directions given by the                                                                                
legislature followed. He shared that he intended to remedy                                                                      
the situation. He went into detail about the federal                                                                            
funding allocated by the legislature to certain projects                                                                        
that the department refuses to undertake saying they do not                                                                     
rank high enough.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman clarified that Senator Hoffman suggested that                                                                     
if certain projects were not funded this year they would                                                                        
"drop off the list" of eligibility for federal funding. He                                                                      
understood that they would not be dropped, but only be                                                                          
delayed a year or so.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman conceded these projects could get funding                                                                       
in the future but that it was not fair that they be dropped                                                                     
after six years and supplanted by other projects that have                                                                      
not been on the STIP.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson told Senator Hoffman that he hoped the                                                                       
Minority member would share those concerns with the                                                                             
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, who                                                                         
made those decisions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley emphasized the serious concerns with the                                                                         
entire STIP process as implemented by the Department of                                                                         
Transportation and Public Facilities. He questioned the                                                                         
constitutionality of the process. He stressed that the                                                                          
matter was more complicated than it seemed and expressed                                                                        
his desire that the Committee work to change the process.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson announced that a committee substitute                                                                        
would be drafted to incorporate the recommendations of the                                                                      
subcommittee. He stated his intent to use AIDEA funds to                                                                        
pay for a portion of the capital projects.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson ordered the bill HELD in Committee.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 256(HES)                                                                               
"An Act relating to regulation of managed health care                                                                           
and allowing physicians to collectively negotiate with                                                                          
a health benefit plan that has substantial market                                                                               
power."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the third hearing for this bill in the Senate                                                                          
Finance Committee. At the last meeting, the Committee                                                                           
adopted CS SB 256, 1-LS1291\I as a workdraft and made an                                                                        
amendment to the committee substitute.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly offered a motion to report from Committee,                                                                     
CS SB 256, 1-LS1291\I, as amended with forthcoming fiscal                                                                       
notes from the Department of Administration, the Department                                                                     
of Community and Economic Development and the Department of                                                                     
Law.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
There was no objection and the bill MOVED FROM COMMITTEE.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 301(RES)                                                                               
"An Act relating to the Chitina dip net fishing                                                                                 
permit; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the second hearing for this bill in the Senate                                                                         
Finance Committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken moved to adopt CS SB 301, 1-LS1516\K as a                                                                        
workdraft. There was no objection.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #2: this bill made the following changes to page                                                                      
1, lines 7-10 of the committee substitute.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Delete: "A person who has in the person's                                                                                       
physical possession a permanent identification card                                                                             
issued under AS 16.05.100(b) and members of the                                                                                 
person's family who are in the presence of the person                                                                           
are not required to pay the fee for the permit while                                                                            
engaged in dip net fishing at Chitina."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
 Insert: "A person who has received a permanent                                                                                 
identification card issued under AS 16.05.400(b) may                                                                            
obtain a Chitina dip net fishing permit without                                                                                 
charge.                                                                                                                         
 The members of the family of a person who                                                                                      
has obtained a Chitina dip net fishing permit are                                                                               
not required to have a Chitina dip net fishing                                                                                  
permit while they are engaged in dip net fishing                                                                                
at Chitina if they are engaged in fishing in the                                                                                
presence of the person and the person has the                                                                                   
Chitina dip net fishing permit in the person's                                                                                  
physical possession."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken moved for adoption. He referenced a                                                                              
memorandum from the Division of Legal and Research Services                                                                     
dated April 6, which recommends the adoption of this                                                                            
amendment. [Copy on file.] Senator Wilken explained it                                                                          
clarifies the stipulation that senior citizens are required                                                                     
to obtain a permit, but that there is no charge to them for                                                                     
the permit. In addition, he said, the amendment allows                                                                          
family members of a person holding a permit to participate                                                                      
in the fishery so long as the permit holder is present.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Without objection, the amendment was ADOPTED.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN DELANEY, Director, Division of Sport Fish, Department                                                                     
of Fish and Game, testified via teleconference from                                                                             
Anchorage in support of the bill.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
STAN BLOOM, Vice President, Chitina Dip Netters'                                                                                
Association, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in                                                                     
favor of the ten dollar fee proposed in the bill. He spoke                                                                      
of the hassle-free dip netting that has been occurring on                                                                       
the Chitina River for the past 20 years. He requested a                                                                         
legislative letter of intent that stipulates the revenues                                                                       
raised by the fees only be used for access to the fishery                                                                       
and for no other purpose.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP, Vice President, Alaska Outdoor Council,                                                                            
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in support of                                                                       
the legislation and stated his appreciation for the                                                                             
Committee's work on the bill. He stressed that the                                                                              
Administration and the legislature must address the access                                                                      
issues within the next year.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE TINKER, Chair, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory                                                                            
Committee testified via teleconference from Fairbanks about                                                                     
his approval in changing the name of the fishery to                                                                             
"Chitina Dip Net Fishery". He spoke to the problems in                                                                          
settling the trespass issue.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARY BISHOP testified via teleconference from Fairbanks                                                                         
that she thought something else must be done to make the                                                                        
public aware that the state is doing something about the                                                                        
trespassing issue.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MAC MINARD, Interior Regional Supervisor, Division of Sport                                                                     
Fish, Department of Fish and Game, testified via                                                                                
teleconference from Fairbanks thanking the legislature for                                                                      
its efforts on this bill. He reiterated the department's                                                                        
support of the bill saying it was viewed as the best                                                                            
solution to some complex problems. He stated the bill                                                                           
attempts to maximize legal public access while minimizing                                                                       
conflicts between the users.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GREG MACHACEK, part-time charter boat operator on the                                                                           
Chitina River, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks                                                                      
about his efforts with the Native association to establish                                                                      
a positive relationship. He was also in support of the                                                                          
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOSEPH HART, representing the Chitina and Ahtna Native                                                                          
Corporations, testified via teleconference from Glennallen                                                                      
that he supported the original intent of the bill but was                                                                       
concerned about giving access to some without compensation                                                                      
for the impact on the corporations' property. He remarked                                                                       
that the corporations would need to renegotiate with the                                                                        
Department of Fish and Game, the amendment pertaining to                                                                        
senior citizens' access without payment.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson stated that it was understood that this                                                                      
was only a temporary solution and that the issue would need                                                                     
to be revisited next year.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken offered a motion to report from Committee,                                                                       
CS SB 301, 1-LS1516\K with accompanying $250,000 fiscal                                                                         
note from the Department of Fish and Game. There was no                                                                         
objection and the bill MOVED FROM COMMITTEE.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 271                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to fees charged for inspections by                                                                             
the Department of Environmental Conservation; and                                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the fifth hearing for this bill in the Senate                                                                          
Finance Committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DARWIN PETERSON, staff to the Senate Finance Committee                                                                          
addressed the proposed committee substitute, 1-LS1223\H,                                                                        
and noted the major changes made to the bill based on                                                                           
remarks made at the previous hearing.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson noted the first change as reflected on page                                                                        
one of the committee substitute, gave the definition of                                                                         
"mobile food unit" as a facility "that serves only                                                                              
beverages and prepackaged food that are from an improved                                                                        
source and are not potentially hazardous.". He said this                                                                        
essentially refers to espresso carts.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson continued with the second change shown on page                                                                     
2, lines 17 through 19. This language, he said further                                                                          
defines that buildings housing more than one establishment                                                                      
and share the same kitchen would be charged only one                                                                            
inspection fee. He gave as an example, a bar and restaurant                                                                     
that share the same kitchen. He noted that if the bar and                                                                       
restaurant have separate kitchens, they would be charged                                                                        
separate inspection fees.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson pointed out that the make-up of the Food                                                                           
Safety Advisory Group was changed on page 3, lines 6 and 7                                                                      
of the committee substitute. Instead of having the members                                                                      
of the group selected by the commissioner of the Department                                                                     
of Environmental Conservation, he stated the Speaker of the                                                                     
House of Representatives and the President of the Senate                                                                        
would select the members.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson added that the legislature's Regulation Review                                                                     
Committee would now be responsible for staffing the Food                                                                        
Safety Advisory Group as stipulated in language on page 3,                                                                      
lines 14 through 16.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson noted an additional change that was present in                                                                     
both the previous committee substitute and this proposed                                                                        
committee substitute establishing the effective date at                                                                         
January 1, 2001, by request of the department.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green noticed the language pertaining to the Food                                                                       
Safety Advisory Group did not address notices of upcoming                                                                       
meetings to the staff. She was concerned that the group                                                                         
might hold meetings without notifying the staff.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson knew of no specific language other than                                                                      
the Open Meetings Act that pertains to notices of meetings.                                                                     
He commented that it would not always be necessary to have                                                                      
staff present at these meetings. He hoped the group would                                                                       
get together on it's own. However, he stressed that when                                                                        
official recommendations are made, the Regulation Review                                                                        
Committee staff needs to write the regulations to present                                                                       
to the legislature.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green relayed that if she were a staff member of                                                                        
the Regulation Review Committee, she would want to attend                                                                       
the meetings and be involved in the formation of                                                                                
regulations.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman moved to adopt CS SB 271, 1-LS1223\H as a                                                                         
workdraft. It was adopted without objection.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman then offered a motion to report CS SB 271, 1-                                                                     
LS1223\H from Committee with forthcoming fiscal note from                                                                       
the Department of Environmental Conservation. Without                                                                           
objection, the bill MOVED FROM COMMITTEE.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 259(JUD)                                                                               
"An Act relating to crimes and offenses relating to                                                                             
aural representations, recordings, access devices,                                                                              
identification documents, impersonation, false                                                                                  
reports, and computers; and providing for an effective                                                                          
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the forth hearing for this bill in the Senate                                                                          
Finance Committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson announced that he would oppose adoption                                                                      
of the proposed committee substitute, 1-LS1284\M. He                                                                            
commented that the sweeping changes should be addressed in                                                                      
the Senate Judiciary Committee if they were to be                                                                               
considered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley said there were some elements of the                                                                             
committee substitute that he supports, but that there were                                                                      
also concerns.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson said he would hold the bill if Senator                                                                       
Donley wanted to work on improvements but that the                                                                              
Committee did not have time to get into it at this time.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson ordered the bill HELD in Committee.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 56                                                                                                   
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the                                                                               
State of Alaska prohibiting certain initiatives                                                                                 
relating to wildlife.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the first hearing for this bill in the Senate                                                                          
Finance Committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CARL MORGAN, sponsor of the bill, noted the                                                                      
bill has wide bipartisan support.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan talked about the ballot initiative                                                                        
process in Alaska and the wildlife-related initiatives                                                                          
placed on the ballot in 1996 and 1998.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan stressed that the claims made in                                                                          
support of the same-day airborne wolf hunting initiative                                                                        
that was adopted in 1986 were untrue. He asserted that                                                                          
these claims dealt with people's emotions and passions in                                                                       
the use of video footage of wolves being killed by an                                                                           
employee of the Department of Fish and Game. He stated that                                                                     
in the footage showing a wolf being shot from a helicopter,                                                                     
the wolf was actually being tranquilized and not killed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan told of the efforts required to spot                                                                      
wolves from an aircraft, find a place to land the aircraft                                                                      
and then run over 100 yards to the place were the wolf was                                                                      
last seen before a shot can be taken. He remarked on the                                                                        
difficulty of running in the snow and then stopping to aim                                                                      
and shoot. He asserted that fair chase is given to the                                                                          
wolves in this case.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan stated that similar ballot initiative                                                                     
legislation has been adopted in Minnesota, and was pending                                                                      
in Arizona, Idaho and North Dakota.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan referred to the animal rights groups                                                                      
efforts to eliminate funding from Ameri-Gas for Iditarod                                                                        
musher, Randy Brooks. Representative Morgan admonished that                                                                     
the groups never researched the positive works of Mr.                                                                           
Brooks, which include the receipt of a humanitarian award                                                                       
in 1998.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan addressed the argument that this                                                                          
resolution is taking away the people's right to vote on                                                                         
important matters. He asserted that by placing this                                                                             
constitutional amendment on the ballot, all Alaskan's are                                                                       
given the chance to decide how wildlife should be managed.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan countered the assertion that only 20                                                                      
percent of Alaskans hunt and/or trap, saying that the                                                                           
constitution is intended to protect the freedom of the                                                                          
minority.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan relayed that tourists come to Alaska                                                                      
to see the Native people and how they live, as well as to                                                                       
see wildlife. He said it is important for visitors to see                                                                       
Alaskan Natives thriving culturally, which includes a                                                                           
dependence on wildlife.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Morgan listed some of those who have written                                                                     
letters in support of the resolution. [Copy of list and                                                                         
letters on file.] One of these organizations is the Alaska                                                                      
Wildlife Society, which he remarked is made up of 300                                                                           
professional biologists working for the Department of Fish                                                                      
and Game or the federal government.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips requested copies of the Utah and Minnesota                                                                     
constitutional amendments regarding wildlife.                                                                                   
Representative Morgan supplied the Utah constitutional                                                                          
amendment language. [Copy on file.]                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the                                                                                 
Commissioner, Department of Fish and Game, stated that the                                                                      
department could not support the proposal because it fails                                                                      
to recognize that there is more to the management of the                                                                        
public's wildlife resources than the application of science                                                                     
and technical expertise. He stressed that wildlife                                                                              
management must also consider and respond to the values                                                                         
held by the public about how they want their wildlife                                                                           
managed.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce pointed out that there are usually many options                                                                       
for wildlife management that are all biologically                                                                               
sustainable and therefore consistent with the sustained                                                                         
yield principal. He stated that the principle of achieving                                                                      
the maximum human harvest of big game as always the highest                                                                     
and best use of big game is not a scientific matter, but a                                                                      
public policy matter. Like many public policy issues, he                                                                        
asserted, there are different views. He said the initiative                                                                     
process is the most direct way the public sorts out its                                                                         
views on public policy and taking the process away is not                                                                       
something the department can support.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce continued saying wildlife management does involve                                                                     
scientific and special expertise, but so does the                                                                               
administration of many other public functions, such as                                                                          
education, public health and transportation planning. It                                                                        
appeared to him and the department, to be no reason to                                                                          
separate wildlife management as a subject too complex for                                                                       
the public to make policy decisions through the initiative                                                                      
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce added that it is worth remembering that a law                                                                         
enacted can be amended by the legislature immediately if                                                                        
there is some error, or if it brings about an unanticipated                                                                     
consequence that is injurious to the public or the wildlife                                                                     
resource. After only two years, he continued, the                                                                               
legislature may repeal the initiative entirely if the                                                                           
legislature believes it is an inappropriate policy for the                                                                      
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce concluded that given these checks and balances to                                                                     
the initiative process, there is little risk that a poor                                                                        
initiative would cause any lasting harm to Alaska's                                                                             
wildlife. On the other hand, he remarked that to remove                                                                         
wildlife management issues from the reach of the initiative                                                                     
process would lead to more conflict rather than less.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JAMES BERLIN JR, Resource Specialist, ABCP, Inc., testified                                                                     
via teleconference from Bethel on behalf of 56 villages and                                                                     
one-quarter of Alaska's tribes. He relayed the                                                                                  
corporation's support of the resolution. He spoke to the                                                                        
fine balance required to manage resources, saying a ballot                                                                      
initiate process could not achieve this. He told of his                                                                         
forefathers' management of wildlife that was dictated by                                                                        
the proper leaders and users of the resources.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Tape: SFC - 00 #79, Side B    9:56 AM                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Berlin, Jr. continued stressing that the public input                                                                       
in wildlife management is already considered through the                                                                        
Board of Game process.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BEN HOPSON JR., Chair, Coalition to the Alaskan Way of                                                                          
Life, testified via teleconference from Barrow in support                                                                       
of the resolution. He described the organization as a                                                                           
diverse coalition of many Native organizations, sportsmen,                                                                      
trappers and hunters in both rural and urban Alaska. He                                                                         
stressed that Outside interests are managing the state's                                                                        
renewable resources through their money and by using                                                                            
emotional influences. He contended that these animal rights                                                                     
groups only want to see total elimination of hunting and                                                                        
trapping in the United States, including Alaska.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
RON ARNO, Guide, testified via teleconference from Mat-Su                                                                       
that it is not in the best interest of Alaskans to use the                                                                      
initiative process for fish and wildlife matters. He spoke                                                                      
of the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's, animal rights                                                                       
and racism.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP, Vice-President, Alaska Outdoor Council,                                                                            
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in strong                                                                           
support of HJR 56. He asserted that contrary to popular                                                                         
press reports, this resolution is not a matter of ignoring                                                                      
the public's interest, but instead is responding to the                                                                         
public's interest.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MIKE TINKER, Chair, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory                                                                            
Committee testified via teleconference from Fairbanks about                                                                     
the importance of this resolution to the advisory                                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARY BISHOP testified via teleconference from Fairbanks                                                                         
suggesting that while the adage "don't watch sausage or                                                                         
legislation being made" was wise, watching laws made by 30-                                                                     
second sound bites was more painful.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JOE MATTIE testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in                                                                       
favor of the resolution saying that the legislature and the                                                                     
Board of Game is the best voice for Alaskans.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
GREG MACHACEK, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee                                                                       
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks to say that the                                                                     
advisory committee is the best process for managing fish                                                                        
and game. He suggested that the only parties who benefited                                                                      
from ballot box biology were those who got paid for their                                                                       
efforts in getting the initiative passed.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PETE BUIST, President, Alaskan Trappers Association,                                                                            
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks that he did not                                                                     
think it was fair that Alaskans had to spend their money                                                                        
fighting heavily funded groups.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KNEELAND TAYLOR, Chair, Alaskan's Against Snaring Wolves,                                                                       
testified via teleconference from Anchorage in opposition                                                                       
to the resolution. He argued that Alaskans should put their                                                                     
trust in democracy. He asserted that if this resolution                                                                         
passes, it would be a "slap in the face" to the large                                                                           
number of Alaskans who voted for the two previous                                                                               
initiatives from 1996 and 1998. He noted that there was a                                                                       
third ballot initiative relating to wildlife, which was on                                                                      
the ballot in 1994 and pertained to sport fishing. He noted                                                                     
that HJR 56 does not apply to fish and commented the                                                                            
omission is a political move. He addressed the assertion                                                                        
that voters are not smart enough to voice their opinions on                                                                     
wildlife matters. He compared the amount of money spent by                                                                      
interest groups on both sides of the wildlife management                                                                        
issue, saying that the conservation groups are vastly                                                                           
outspent by the sportsmen's groups. He suggested the                                                                            
election to decide this initiative will be funded on both                                                                       
sides from sources outside the state.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly stated that he did not approve of Outside                                                                      
interests deciding Alaskan's way of life.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN SCHRADER, Conservation Advocate, Alaska Conservation                                                                      
Voters, testified in Juneau talked about the importance of                                                                      
the ballot initiative process. She stated that her                                                                              
organization opposes the resolution. She suggested that if                                                                      
the concern is with the influence of Outside factors, why                                                                       
the legislature is proposing to limit Alaskan's rights. She                                                                     
asserted passing this resolution would not solve the                                                                            
problem of Outside money and suggested campaign finance                                                                         
reform was a better option.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green mentioned the downside of this particular                                                                         
type of initiative. She wanted to know if this resolution                                                                       
poses a limitation on limited entry.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman answered there is no limited entry for the                                                                        
taking of wildlife.  He noted that Mr. Taylor brought up a                                                                      
good point worth considering regarding managing of fish at                                                                      
the ballot box, which he thought, was not good.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green noted there was no constitutionally valid                                                                         
method restricting Outside interests' spending money and                                                                        
influencing Alaskan elections.  She stated that a court                                                                         
decision issued the previous year made it even broader.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson had the same understanding.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips asked if, constitutionally, the state                                                                          
could limit the amount of spending on constitutional                                                                            
amendment initiatives.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson didn't think so.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Several members commented it was a matter of free speech                                                                        
and the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Senator                                                                       
Donley cited court decisions affirming this.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips spoke to the constitutional amendment                                                                          
proposed in the State of Utah, saying its provision                                                                             
requires that two-thirds of voters must vote in favor to                                                                        
any constitutional amendment regarding wildlife.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips was curious to know how much Outside funds                                                                     
was spent of the wildlife-related ballot initiatives in the                                                                     
1996 and 1998 elections.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly supported the initiative and wanted to                                                                         
counter some points brought up in testimony. He noted that                                                                      
in many states, voters do not have the right to amend their                                                                     
constitutions in any way. He suggested that on wildlife                                                                         
issues, the initiative process can be set aside because the                                                                     
animal rights and environmental extremists want to change                                                                       
Alaskan's way of life and turn Alaska into a big park.                                                                          
Results at stake at the ballot box. Secondly, he stated                                                                         
that the results of a mistake made at the ballot box are                                                                        
more dramatic with wildlife.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly did not claim whether people knew what                                                                         
they were voting on or not in the 1996 election. However,                                                                       
he thought they did not understand the consequences on                                                                          
Rural Alaska, and in fact he didn't fully understand them                                                                       
either. He said this inability to understand the                                                                                
implications is the reason for the fish and game advisory                                                                       
committees and the Board of Game.  He attested that it                                                                          
would take ten years to bring the moose population near                                                                         
McGrath back to minimum standards.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly contended that the legislature could not                                                                       
turn these types of issues over to Outside interests who                                                                        
are very well financed. He asserted these groups use                                                                            
Alaska's issues to raise money. He stated that he saw no                                                                        
other reason for environmental and animal rights groups                                                                         
than to raise money to provide income for executive                                                                             
directors and to influence elections.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly talked about college students from Oregon                                                                      
working to get signatures for the 1996 initiative. He                                                                           
stated that these "20-year old students with stars in their                                                                     
eyes" had no idea about the issue and knew nothing about                                                                        
Alaskans' way of life. He claimed they said things about                                                                        
the initiative that were not true.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly stressed, "the fact remains, Outside                                                                           
groups are coming for this state and they've found a chink                                                                      
in our armor."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly next asserted that wildlife viewing is a                                                                       
ruse and the arguments in favor are irrelevant.  He stated                                                                      
that he has been in Alaska all his life and has seen very                                                                       
few wolves. He argued against the claim that this                                                                               
resolution would result in a loss of tourism due to too few                                                                     
wolves, saying it would be the exact opposite because there                                                                     
will be more moose, which are the animals more likely to be                                                                     
seen.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green found it interesting that the Committee is                                                                        
told in the testimony against this resolution that                                                                              
constitutional amendments can be changed after the two-year                                                                     
period.  She stressed that when the legislature actually                                                                        
attempts to make those changes it is accused of acting                                                                          
against the people's will.  She surmised that this                                                                              
resolution was the answer to the dilemma.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator P. Kelly offered a motion to move from Committee,                                                                       
HJR 56 with accompanying $1,500 fiscal note from the                                                                            
Division of Elections. Senator Phillips objected.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
A roll call was taken on the motion.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Senator Leman, Senator Wilken, Senator P. Kelly,                                                                      
Senator Green, Senator Donley, Co-Chair Parnell and Co-                                                                         
Chair Torgerson                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
OPPOSED: Senator Phillips                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ABSENT: Senator Adams                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The motion PASSED (7-1-1)                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The resolution was MOVED FROM COMMITTEE.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 10:36 AM / 10:36 AM                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 272                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the tax assessment by a home rule                                                                           
or general law municipality of housing that qualifies                                                                           
for the low-income housing credit under the Internal                                                                            
Revenue Code; and providing for an effective date."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the first hearing for this bill in the Senate                                                                          
Finance Committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JONATHAN LACK, staff to Representative Andrew Halcro,                                                                           
testified that this bill would set into law, a formula for                                                                      
accessing federally qualified low-income housing. He shared                                                                     
that until 1998, local governments throughout the State Of                                                                      
Alaska were assessing low-income housing based on a                                                                             
federally restricted rental income, taking into                                                                                 
consideration deed restrictions and other covenants on the                                                                      
properties that are required by the federal government. In                                                                      
1998, he continued, the Municipality of Anchorage changed                                                                       
its formula for accessing its low-income housing. He stated                                                                     
the formula is now based on the market value of these units                                                                     
without consideration of deed restrictions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lack remarked that unfortunately, because these units                                                                       
have deed restrictions on the amount of rent that can be                                                                        
charged, the non-profit organizations that sponsor these                                                                        
housing units, couldn't raise rents to compensate for these                                                                     
increased property taxes. In some cases, he shared; the                                                                         
increase in property taxes through the difference in                                                                            
assessment methods has been over 100 percent.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lack stated that this bill places these low-income                                                                          
housing units in jeopardy and places all units throughout                                                                       
Alaska at risk. He explained that banks are refusing to                                                                         
finance these projects anywhere in the state without a                                                                          
uniform taxation policy. Additionally, he said, the City                                                                        
and Borough of Juneau has tried to change its taxation                                                                          
policy in the past, but fortunately, the non-profit                                                                             
organizations were successful in their appeals to the local                                                                     
boards of equalization.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lack asserted that the bill follows the standards                                                                           
approved by the "uniform standards of special appraisal                                                                         
practices". He stated all Alaskan communities are affected                                                                      
by the Municipality of Anchorage policy; Anchorage is the                                                                       
only city affected by this legislation because other                                                                            
communities properly assess their qualified low-income                                                                          
housing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lack stressed the need to support low-income housing in                                                                     
Alaska, saying that most rental housing in the state was                                                                        
constructed during the pipeline days and targets single                                                                         
adults. Today, he said there are more small families                                                                            
looking for housing due to low-paying service industry jobs                                                                     
that are replacing higher paying oil industry jobs.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lack relayed that other states, including Washington,                                                                       
Oregon, California and Hawaii, have exempted low income                                                                         
housing from all property taxes. HB 272 does not go that                                                                        
far, he stated. Instead, he said it only requires the                                                                           
assessor take into consideration, the rent restrictions                                                                         
that are on these properties. He added that this bill fills                                                                     
the need for affordable housing.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ROBIN GILCRIST, President, Housing First, testified in                                                                          
Juneau in support of the bill. She described the Juneau-                                                                        
based non-profit housing development organization and the                                                                       
need for the organization to annually appeal its                                                                                
assessment. She stated that the assessment is based on a                                                                        
market-value system rather than a rent restricted system.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DAN FAUSKE, CEO/Executive Director, Alaska Housing Finance                                                                      
Corporation, testified in Juneau in support on bill and the                                                                     
concept behind it. He thought this legislation would help                                                                       
"level the playing field." He talked about the                                                                                  
corporation's low-income housing investments of                                                                                 
approximately $58 million statewide. He said this bill                                                                          
would be a tool to use as the federal government is moving                                                                      
away from public housing and toward more "Section 8" rent                                                                       
subsidies.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley wanted to know the public policy                                                                                 
ramifications. He gave a situation of a low-income family                                                                       
in Anchorage that saved to buy or built a house, using AHFC                                                                     
funding and is now paying a higher mortgage rate than those                                                                     
living in rural areas.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Tape: SFC - 00 #80, Side A    10:44 AM                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley commented on how this bill will require low-                                                                     
income homeowners to now subsidize the renters' portion of                                                                      
public services. He noted that some low-income renter have                                                                      
higher incomes than the homeowners do.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Fauske replied that this housing would not have been                                                                        
built without some kind of "layered financing." He stressed                                                                     
that building these low-income units brings in more tax                                                                         
base, which eases the burden on the existing taxpayers                                                                          
because there is more property to be assessed.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley asked if those low-income residents wouldn't                                                                     
have to live somewhere.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Fauske referenced a study done by the military at                                                                           
Elmondorf Air Force Base, that found the number of low-                                                                         
income units unacceptable. While he was not critical of                                                                         
private landlords, he stated that without the input of new                                                                      
stock, the state finds itself in a situation where demand                                                                       
exceeds supply. He said this results in a lower quality of                                                                      
units. He spoke of the large waiting list for the Section 8                                                                     
program and the extensive work developers and financiers                                                                        
must go through to build low-income housing.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson announced this bill would be brought up                                                                      
at a future Committee meeting for more public testimony.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DAVID GUNDACKER SR testified via teleconference from                                                                            
Anchorage that he is a retired disabled veteran living in                                                                       
low-income rental housing. His biggest concern was that                                                                         
banks would no longer finance housing units such as where                                                                       
he lived if there were no tax break. He stressed this would                                                                     
devastating for people like himself.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman clarified that the bill would have just the                                                                       
opposite affect of what the witness stated.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MIKE BURNS testified via teleconference from Anchorage to                                                                       
defer his time to the next testifier.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DAVID LAWER, President, Alaska Bankers Association,                                                                             
testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of                                                                       
HB 272. He referenced written testimony submitted by and                                                                        
representatives from Alaskan banks. [Copies on file.]                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
JAN SIEBERTS testified via teleconference from Anchorage                                                                        
stating that Mr. Lawer spoke on his behalf.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HUBERT GELLERT, Private Landlord, Former Chair, Board of                                                                        
Equalization, Municipality of Anchorage, testified via                                                                          
teleconference from Anchorage that he is currently                                                                              
developing low-income housing units in Girdwood. He                                                                             
supports the legislation. He challenged the appraisal                                                                           
process in Anchorage, giving details of its faults.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MATT REAMS, resident of Spruce View low income housing                                                                          
area, testified via teleconference from Anchorage                                                                               
qualifying that he did not understand the legislative                                                                           
process but did not want increased taxes that would hamper                                                                      
the development of low income housing.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WILEY BROOKS, Property Manager, testified via                                                                                   
teleconference from Anchorage that he was not opposed to                                                                        
affordable housing but he did not like special interest                                                                         
legislation. He said no one was representing the small                                                                          
property owners. He referenced written testimony. [Copy on                                                                      
file.]                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JEFF JUDD, Executive Director, Anchorage Mutual Housing                                                                         
Association testified in Juneau about quality affordable                                                                        
housing. His organization was in support of the bill. He                                                                        
asserted that affordable housing was in a crisis situation.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson ordered the bill HELD in Committee.                                                                          
ADJOURNED                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Torgerson adjourned the meeting at 11:04 AM.                                                                            
SFC-00 (22) 04/07/00                                                                                                            

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